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John McC's avatar

The process described occurred over millions of years and involved many wars and subugation of people's. This occurred naturally and was simply natural selection at work. What's happening now is artificial, it will have no positive benefit in the short to medium term. Maybe a sub species will emerge after millions more years but this is highly unlikely, as a high degree of luck is also required. Our children, grandchildren, and probably the next hundred generations will suffer for going against natural forces.

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Simon Webb's avatar

Yes, it will be a very slow process whatever happens.

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Peter's avatar

The negative consequences of the massmigration áre only years or perhaps a few generations away. The positive consequences could theoretically occur in thousands or tenthousends of years. Your extremely optimistic assumption is that there will be a human civilization left in that distant future. Realistically we should worry more about what happens in the next months, years and maybe decades. The idea that new waves of homo sapiens will improve our gene pool and benefit Europe in thousands or thousands of years is a bit... well, far fetched. But I get your humour and forgive you the clickbait title in a second. It made me read your article, and I benefited from doing so. ;-)

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Rolf Norfolk's avatar

The Chinese did in fact explore by sea, didn't they, but maybe there was enough in their vast lands to keep them occupied. And the Polynesians spread from what is now Taiwan.

The technical developments that had driven modern civilisation may have been invented by high functioning autistic people; maybe that's the genetic driver.

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Simon Webb's avatar

A good point. It is also men who make most discoveries and inventions and they have far higher rates of autism.

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Robby24's avatar

And how does this help us in the short term?

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Simon Webb's avatar

It doesn't! It might mean centuries of disruption and unpleasant consequences. I am talking on a timescale of thousands of years.

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Kiti Misha's avatar

The opposite could also happen. Your claim is a bit thin and your arguments quite stretched to the limit of logic. Facts today show that this mass immigration is destroying not only Europe but the whole of the western world. Even Japan is affected by the negative consequences of immigration. Also, the people coming out of Africa today aren’t the same as those who came and bred with the Neanderthal. What we’re seeing now is a swarm that brings only destruction in its wake.

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John McC's avatar

Evolution occurs over millions of years, but even thousands is too long. Yes we can breed hundreds of different kinds of dog, but they're still all dogs. This process requires human intervention and would not occur naturally. The unnatural situation we have now is not controlled. It could work out well but I seriously doubt it. We could selectively breed humans to reach perfection but that's a different thing altogether.

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Simon Webb's avatar

The effect of Homo sapiens arriving in Neanderthal Europe was chaotic and random, but certainly a good thing in the long run.

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Peter's avatar

In the veeeeeeery long run. I'm afraid this time, we will be out of breath a few thousand generations before the benefit really kicks in. :-))

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Kristoffer O’Shaugnessy's avatar

Considering the state of sub-Saharan Africa, it will be an utter disaster.

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Robby24's avatar

Absolutely.

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Simon Webb's avatar

It certainly won't be a comfortable time, at least for our generation...

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Ben's avatar

What are you're thoughts on the work Joseph Needham did on Chinese inventions? (Science and Civilization in China). Surely you must have heard of it?

Also, avanced cave art etc. can also be found in Africa, and may have predated Europe (and also in Southeast Asia for that matter). What are your thoughts on this?

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Simon Webb's avatar

There is no evidence that sophisticated paintings of the kind found in Europe appeared in sub-Saharan Africa. Chinese inventions were not used for the same purposes as those in Europe. The magnetic compass, for example, was first used in China, but only for feng shui, rather than navigating ships.

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Simon Webb's avatar

Yes, it depends I suppose what you mean by 'art'! The 77,000 year old art was just a stone smeared all over with a red pigment. It was not art in the sense that the European cave paintings are art.

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Ben's avatar

Well, it seems that the oldest known cave art in Africa is now dated to 77.000 years ago https://www.tota.world/article/2273/#:~:text=Until%202002%2C%20Africa's%20oldest%20discovered,an%20estimated%2077%2C000%20years%20ago.

There is also cave art on the island of

Sulawesi, Indonesia, dated to 52.000

-43.000 years ago.

(It must be said the dates and places for cave art are given fragmentary online, it varies by source/site. Here's another overview

https://www-thearchaeologist-org.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.thearchaeologist.org/blog/ten-oldest-known-cave-paintings-in-the-world?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&format=amp&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=Van%20%251%24s&aoh=17260718912411&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thearchaeologist.org%2Fblog%2Ften-oldest-known-cave-paintings-in-the-world which puts the oldest at 64.0000 years, in a Spanish cave, associated with Neanderthals).

While it is true that the magnetic needle in China was at first used for religious-magical purposes, eventually it became a navigation device for sea voyages (that's how it eventually spread to the Middle East and then Europe).

That's what one finds online, in any case.

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Matthew's avatar

I wonder what would happen if the sorry state of the UK pushed our brightest and best to leave to more functioning societies. I imagine they would want to live somewhere with opportunity and freedom of thought. Perhaps Argentina or El Salvodor. Perhaps these places are where the most fruitful genetic mixing will happen while our poor country becomes a rotten backwater.

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Simon Webb's avatar

Lord knows where we will all be obliged to seek refuge...

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FelixCarbury's avatar

Another scenario is that we will soon be able to selectively gene edit. This will create what is effectively a new species. It is not inconceivable that one could gene edit "live" and change your appearance frequently depending on fashion. Pure black one season, bright white the next. Iain m banks is interesting on this.

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Pierre Bezukhov's avatar

Ed Dutton just made a recent video about this subject. Some of his points are that in inter relationships, you force alleles that normally do not work together, causing mental imbalances. He also mentions r, or fast life history strategy often prevails in mixed offspring. It would be interesting if he could read and offer some feedback.

In some of your older videos, you did mention that many of the famous black American people you knew were mixed race, like Colin Powell, Obama, King jr. That is because of affairs or rapes during the antebellum years. The main point is, African Americans have a large chunk of European or red Indian DNA, yet on the aggregate, perform lower in standard testing.

Let’s get start talking about other mixed race groups eh, the world does not revolve around Africa? In Mexico and most of Central and South America, we have Spanish, Portuguese genes mixed with the native Indian population. If there is hybrid vigour, why is Mexico and Colombia not super powers but rather a drug state?

Regardless I do enjoy your stuff and your new point of view is refreshing.

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Mforti's avatar

Pure speculation that the mixed Neanderthals and Homo Sapiens were smarter (and grew to be the leaders) than the not mixed. No basis for rationally thinking this.

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Simon Webb's avatar

Except of course that it is the Homo sapiens with a dash of Neanderthal genes which we find in Europe and the Middle East, who have invented practically everything in the world. The pure Homo sapiens who remained in Africa did not really achieve all that much. This suggests strongly that the mixture was good and advantageous.

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Mforti's avatar

There are too many other possible explanations to make that a strong possibility. Self selection ie those with enough fortitude, ingenuity and adaptability were more likely to venture out of Africa in the first place or at least venture to new lands and survive. My guess there was also likely much genetic separation between different African populations even before Homo Sapiens left Africa just as there is today.

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Little known history's avatar

Have you ever read the failure of nations? They have a different explanation why some countries succeed and others don't

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Why-Nations-Fail-Origins-Prosperity/dp/1846684307

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